Let's Talk About Pottery & Collectables
Collectables => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: patgc on September 17, 2009, 10:52:43 PM
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This is my first post, so hope I have done it right.
I have been recommended to try this site in my quest to identify a small collectible
I believe it to be made from celluloid or maybe bakelite but what it represents I cannot find out. I thought maybe it was to do with early space travel or a fictional space ship but nobody has come up with a definite answer. Perhaps someone out there recognises it.
It measures approx 1.5" x 1.75" and has a metal pin and open type clasp on the back.
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Hi and welcome to the board. :) Your picture looks very much like either a satellite or an orbiter module of a spacecraft. It reminds me of the Vhoskod and Vostok ones especially, the Soviets seem to have favoured these spherical modules. It might be worth while having a look through these sites for a match:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/index.html or http://www.astronautix.com/
Let us know how you get on, meanwhile we'll see what we can find too.
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Hi there and WELCOME to the Board also... :cheerleader: :cheerleader:
I was wondering if you could post a pic of the metal clasp to see if we can also help to date it that way......or do you see any writing on the clasp at all....which maybe be very, very tiny...
Again Welcome
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This is the best pic ive got at the moment. I've had a good look at the pin through a 30x glass and there is nothing written on it.
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think this is a better pic.
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Have had a good look at the 2 sites mentioned and yes there is a similarity to the early Russian ones, but nothing that looks like my brooch. Anyone had anymore thoughts ?
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Have you looked into the Jules Verne novels. He had some spectacular vehicles in his stories (27 thousand leagues under the sea, around the world in 80 days, etc.) and this strikes me as something down that road. Also, the clasp looks to be rather old as it does not have a safety clasp on it, however, looks can be deceiving.
Sorry, I may have confused you more, rather than helping, but...
Carolyn
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I have just done the red hot pin test on it (carefully !!) and it doesn't melt or smell of burning plastic, so seems it may be made of bone. This would I think pre-date our Space travel era and would more likely point to a fictional image as suggested.
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I have just done the red hot pin test on it (carefully !!) and it doesn't melt or smell of burning plastic, so seems it may be made of bone. This would I think pre-date our Space travel era and would more likely point to a fictional image as suggested.
And that would reinforce (and be reinforced by) the apparent age of the pin.
Carolyn
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I have scanned all the Google images for Jules Verne and H G Wells and havn't come up with anything like it. I cant even guestimate a date for it. This has really got me stumped
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A spaceship.....or a submarine?
I just saw a show on the HISTORY channel about a ball shaped submarine first invented that was to go underneath enemy ships and was able to drill holes in the bottom of boats....I did not watch the whole show, but caught bits and pieces of it. It was ball shaped for only one person to fit in it. Not sure what it was called but I found this reading;
http://www.submarine-history.com/NOVAone.htm
oops - spoke too soon. I think this might be what I mean: http://www.arco.navy.mil/history_of_the_submarine.htm
See these: Very Long Link-Click here to see PIXS of it (http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cqNbjz0gMoY/RhYzkguBqwI/AAAAAAAAAhs/E3P6mpj-7rY/s400/submarine6.jpg&imgrefurl=http://allthefunny.blogspot.com/2007/07/early-submarine-william-bourne-sketched.html&usg=__xj05Ncrfaj7R5m_lvtiIpa6dG6g=&h=324&w=400&sz=27&hl=en&start=174&um=1&tbnid=Fjy517VMhVme_M:&tbnh=100&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCornelius%2Bvan%2BDrebbel%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26start%3D160%26um%3D1)
Some other reading (Eg. Carved Jewelry, clasps, etc., etc)
CLICK HERE- Mentions G.H. Wells (http://books.google.ca/books?id=zv6GxJzhrbgC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=H.G+Wells+carved+brooches&source=bl&ots=EH7eqdIeK6&sig=J1nVBXLVxiv8SJI3bXOmeOQe6SI&hl=en&ei=PlS3SsGhMYaMMaa8kdoO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#v=onepage&q=H.G%20Wells%20carved%20brooches&f=false)
http://www.collectingvintagejewelry.blogspot.com/2009/03/todays-vintage-jewelry-word-c-clasp.html
http://www.russia4.com/bone.htm
Click here-long link (http://bargainvintagejewelry.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/f83892656a10e930e986ca9da9e1ca27.jpg)
http://www.ajraefields.com/products/pins-brooches-other-pins-and-brooches/2979-11-vintage-ivory-carved-rose-pin-brooch.html
http://www.kunstpedia.com/articles/266/2/A-Short-History-of-Twentieth-Century-Jewellery/Page2.html
http://imageevent.com/bluboi/haskellclasps
I see that you posted a query on Ebay (and someone did MENTION US too there :cheerleader:). I am going to post this here just so others here can read through it, and might get some more ideas....if that is OK?
http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=1100264498&tstart=0&mod=1253476073450
Just my 2 cents today......well maybe 5 cents worth... :24: this is very interesting. Sort of looks scrimshaw to me too...
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Yes, The Ebay forum gave me the link to this site, thats how I came to find you. Lots of interesting ideas from them as well. Have just started to go through your links which are very interesting, but nothing yet. Can I presume that looking at the clasp, it is over 100years old ?
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Hi there....glad we are noted by someone on the Ebay forums...and you came to us. :cheerleader: :cheerleader:
Could you take an angle shot of the clasp so we can see the shape of the clasp, and the other end...and just the clasp itself.
Yes this would help to date it.......mind you, A). someone could have lost the clasp and put another on one, B) it was never a brooch in the first place and someone made it into one, C) Clasp and item are married pieces.....put together at some point. ^-^
...But for now, lets just see the clasp and we ill go from there. Does your camera have a close up lens? Looking forward to your pix...
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these are the best I can do, hope they are ok.
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no 2
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no 3
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Thanks for the photos ..... :tup3:
Looks old.....and like the little things (ends) might be silver. I wonder if it would be OK to try (gently, so not to break it) some silver cleaner on on end (maybe use a toothbrush, gently...) to see if it shines up some, and any hidden marks there...I will do some research here a bit later.... :idea:
...but it still kinda look scrimshaw-y to me....if that is a word...
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I'd think from the catch it would be pre-WW2, but I don't know how far before it. I did find a couple of sites with info about dating brooches from pins which are worth looking at:
http://www.antiquesavenue.co.uk/vintage-brooches-192-c.asp (scroll down to the foot of the page for a small video on dating pins), this one has a comparison image: http://www.antiqueauctionsfl.com/antique_jewelry.htm and this one has some interesting info about bakelite broooches and clasps along with a brooch which could be made of the same material as yours, albeit in a different style:
http://www.jewelry-paideia.com/reference/ref-vintage-jewelry-6.php
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http://www.glitzqueen.com/datingbrooches.html
http://www.vintagejewelrybyteresa.com/brooch3.html (Brooch #304) Has a pic here of craved Lucite ivory....wonder if that is what it could be (??) the Unidentified Flying Object here in the start post...
Still say our UFO is still an UFO...... :24:
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Son Edmund, who has just finished his Masters Degree in 'Space Technology and Planetary Exploration', says that whatever it is, it's not a real satellite! He thinks if it's any sort of satellite it's a Science Fiction one, although he also says it does look a little bit like the design for the Soviet Lunar Lander, which was never actually built.
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just back from my hols and see there is still interest in my item. Yes I definitely think its more Science Fiction than fact. I have scanned and looked and asked and have still not come up with anything 'concrete'. As to what it is made from, thats still got me stumped. I am leaning back towards bone as when I did the hot pin test again, there was a slight smell of burning hair, again no melt or smell of plastic. I am assured that bone or ivory smells of burnt hair.. I really dont think that unless I can send it away to a specialist somewhere ( which I can't afford) I will never get a definite answer.
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I wonder if it's Bakelite. Bone usually has very tiny holes in it, but that appears perfectly smooth
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Isn't there a Bakelite test by rubbing....if it gives off a certain smell? Never done the test, so not sure of the smell... :-\
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Bakelite smells like carbolic acid when rubbed, whatever that smells like. ;D
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Maybe it's an "end of day" brooch.
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Maybe it's an "end of day" brooch.
Say what? What on earth is that?
Carolyn
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Just like "end of day" glass, only with plastic.
End-of-day glass
Produced (often by apprentices) by rolling a gather onto a random assortment of coloured glass fragments (literally, whatever was left at the end of the day) on the marver, then blowing and shaping (compare Spatter glass)
http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/glossa-e.htm
Although here it says it has to be mixed with two colours. :quiet:
http://antiques.about.com/od/resourcesforbeginners/g/aa041306.htm
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Bakelite has a kind of soapy smell when rubbed with a wet finger, but don't go licking it ;D.
I've been reading this thread with fascination ;)
I'm totally mystified.
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No, no smell of soap in fact no smell of anything.