Topic: Lilac ? Victorian ? transferware ? Dresser ? dish

[olesparkleyes]

Lilac ? Victorian ? transferware ? Dresser ? dish
8.5" long. Decor in brownish-amethyst-lilac . Is that unusual ?
What would you call that colour ?
Sectioned inside.  A soap dish ? Dresser dish ? Hair receiver ? Hat pins ? 
Photos of inside & base to follow..
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Vetrissimo/CeramicsResearch#5437430124062996290
Thank you
Peter

[Anne]

Hi Pete, long time no see! How've you been?  I suspect this might be a dressing table / wash stand box of some sort but it depends what it looks like isnide. No base marks I suppose?

BTW there was another of those English Country Pottery candlesticks like yours on eBay - seems to have a signature on the side: EMMA which yours doesn't appear to have in the same place. LINK

[antiquerose123]

Could it be a Dresser/for those Trinket pieces (??) My guess....

[olesparkleyes]

Thanks all
Strikes me as an odd shape unless for some more specialised purpose.
I will photo inside as well as base.
No, no marks at all

I'd still like to confirm that it is indeed "transferware" and if the decoration colour is unusual or just that I haven't seen it before because of inexperience and what name this colour goes by.

Thanks Anne for the candlestick link. Shame I was too late to get it. A pair would have been nice. I have only very recently started buying ceramics again after many years of almost exclusively glass.
Thanks
Pete

[Tigerchips]

It looks like transferware to me unless it's all hand painted?

A toilet set according to this ebay seller...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390155810100#ht_1435wt_908

That handle, i've seen it before i just can't think where, is it a hand painted rose bud? Is it pottery or porcelain?

[olesparkleyes]

Thanks Tiger
I'm completely new to this kind of ware so all at sea and having to learn everything from scratch. Just wasn't sure what "transferware" included. Seems it's everything thats not hand painted ??
No, it's not hand painted but I expected to be able to see the join of the transfer and I can't.
The pattern is roses / briars - complete with thorns !!

Yes the knob is supposed to be a rose bud I think but it looks to me like that had a transfer plonked on it as well !! The are some extremely fine lines leading up to the edge of the petals which I don't think could have been painted by hand. They are too fine and too regular.

Thanks for the link. Very helpful. Mine has the same seperator bars inside but no decoration there. They are asking a lot for that one - any particular reason why ??

This IS a mark !!! but just a very very simple one - a diamond with curved inwards sides. Like a child might draw a star. It's done in the same colour as the transfer decoration. I still don't know what to call that colour.
Thanks for your interest and help.
Pete

[antiquerose123]

It is so-o-o-o pretty...

[Tigerchips]

I think transferware means everything that has been transfer printed.

From Wikipedia...

Transfer printing is a mass-production method of applying an image to a curved or uneven surface. It is most commonly used for printing on porcelain and other hard surfaced pottery.
Transfer printing evolved in England in the 1750s. The image is first engraved on a copper plate, and then different ink colours added - often mixed with oil and heated to allow the colour to run deeper in to the engravings. Then it is transferred to a special paper and placed on the ceramic. This is known as the 'bat' and gives the process its alternative name: 'bat printing'. This is then placed on the ceramic object in its unglazed state after its initial firing to transfer the image to the object; the object is then glazed and fired again to make the image permanent. Seeing as there are a great number of steps to be taken, transfer printing is the most expensive and time consuming.
Prior to the invention of transfer printing, images could only be placed on ceramic objects by hand-painting in enamels; its invention was therefore a major step in the production of decorative ceramic wares for the mass market. It is believed that it was developed by John Sadler and Guy Green. However the improvements made by Wedgwood are generally credited for the widespread popularity the method enjoyed during the next hundred years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer-print

As for the one on ebay, i couldn't tell you how much it's worth but i do recognise the name of the company. It is also not the usual plate, bowl or tureen i keep seeing. The more expensive items are the one's with scenes though.

If there's a mark can you post a picture of it please. It sound like diamond registration lozenge. We might be able to date it if it's clear enough.

[olesparkleyes]

Thanks Tiger
I'm very surprised that transfer printing was invested so long ago. I had assumed about 100 years later !!! That actually helps me with another piece which I shall post later.
Terry used to collect transferware plates with romantic scenes esp polychrome.

"not the usual plate, bowl or tureen i keep seeing"
It was the unusual shape of this item as well as the unusual colour of the decor which attracted me. Plus it was very cheap and I thought I could learn something from it, which thanks to you I have.

I will do a pic of the mark but it's not a registration lozenge unfortunately. Too small and no numbers inside.
Pete

[Tigerchips]

Ah, Thomas Ford did one without numbers.

[antiquerose123]

It is surprising JUST what they did do so many years ago......I myself was also surprised to find this out a few years ago....

[Anne E.B.]

I saw a similar lidded oval dish yesterday in an antique shop.  It had a matching smaller lidded dish which was a soap dish - with ridges.  The oval one had three sections and they described it as a toothbrush holder, although I'm not quite sure how that would work unless they had short toothbrushes in Victorian times?

[olesparkleyes]

Thanks Anne
I love to ponder the original proper uses of things like this and ever since my cobalt Fish dish was confirmed as a "Sardine Dish" at GMB I won't let go until the answer comes !!!
After all when I first joined GMB I didn't know about Celery Vases, Spooners, Ring Trees, or even open salts.
Yes this has ridges too ....and I've now done more pics so you can see them
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Vetrissimo/CeramicsResearch#5446044008247608450
arrow forward for more pics.
But seems too big for a soap dish ......unless the Victorians used an awful lot of soap (possible) or different kinds of soaps ? One for washing clothes ? I think you can still buy a brick like thing of laundry soap but from memory it would be too big width and height wise for this.
Maybe they used to cut bars of soap down to more manageable sizes ?
Or maybe the "brick" just seemed so large because the last time I saw one was when I was a small child ?? Alice Syndrome ?

I think at some point it contained a Brillo pad or similar as there are some rust marks up at one end which I can't get off. I can never understand how rust can permanently stain porcelain.

My toothbrush won't quite fit in despite it being 8.5" but maybe Victorian toothbrushes were smaller ?? I don't think I've ever seen an antique toothbrush !! I wonder if there's a museum of them somewhere ........you never know.
Thanks for your interest
Pete

[Anne]

The mark on the base looks like a fleur-de-lys, Pete. There isn't a match for it in Lang's Pottery & Porcelain Marks so no idea who made it but.... I can suggest what it was used for...

According to Miller's Encyclopedia of British Transfer Printed Pottery Patterns 1790-1930, by Gillian Neale, it's a toilet box (not a soap box which is smaller). The books says that they come with a tight fitting lid that sometimes has a handle, and they have either a central division running lengthwise, or two small ridges running crossways, to keep a brush or a razor dry.

The pattern's not shown in the book though, so along with the fleur-de-lys that would make me suspect it's mainland continental rather than English, but I could be wrong! The fleur-de-lys is much used by French makers of course.

BTW I just found a Dresden example on sale here: (right at the bottom of the page) http://www.grannieusedto.co.uk/trolleyed/3/index.htm and a miniature / toy set here which shows what was used for the Victorian toilet (i.e. wash stand, not loo!): http://tracystoys.blogspot.com/2009/11/antique-doll-chamber-set.html

[olesparkleyes]

Thanks Anne
Just figured out that the rust could have been from a razor and Victoprian razors were those long cut-throat things to the shape of the box fits that too.
I suppose the proper name would be Toiletry Box or if French or pretentious "Boite de Toilette".
So I'm happy enough with that. I didn't really expect to find a maker but thank you for trying anyway.
Tiger suggested Thomas Ford earlier. I'll look him up & see what I can find just in case.
The rose-bud knob seems rather un-English to me but I am a novice in this so could be easily wrong.